January 21, 1977, bhubaneswar

ROOM CONVERSATION

HIGHLIGHTS: Paper currency is cheating… farm self-sufficiency is insurance against banking collapse …preach by presenting the example of ideal life

Rämeçvara: There was one question I had, Çréla Prabhupäda. You have written in the Third Volume of the First Canto [ SB 1.17.39] different instructions for the age of Kali, how there’ll be compulsory marriage and so on and so on. And you mentioned about the gold standard, that this is very bad, this artificial standard of monetary exchange.

 

Prabhupäda: Oh, yes. It is very bad.

Rämeçvara: In the future this is something that we should try to correct.

Prabhupäda: You should introduce coin, real money.

Hari-çauri: Real gold coins. No paper.

Prabhupäda: Anyone has got money… It is fact. And what is this nonsense, keeping some paper and thinking he has got money? How cheating it is going on, from government’s side. And therefore artificial inflation. You can print, so the price is increased. Because you haven’t got to pay him real money, you print and pay him, and he will ask, “Give me this money. Then I’ll supply.” “All right, take.” You print and pay.

 

Rämeçvara: It’s definitely a means that the government has for controlling. Because they can withdraw money, pull it back out of circulation by increasing the interest the banks give, or they can get more money in…

 

Prabhupäda: Anything done artificially.

 

Rämeçvara: They control the amount of interest on loans. It’s all standard ized from what they call the Federal Reserve system. This was introduced during the Depression by the bankers.

Prabhupäda: Whatever they do, when you receive money in the paper it has no value. Bad money. It is bad money. It is not good money.

Rämeçvara: Actually most purchasing in America is done on credit now. Even a step beyond paper money is credit, no money, buying on no money, loans.

Prabhupäda: That is in India also.

Rämeçvara: We don’t find these things in Vedic culture too much.

Prabhupäda: There was never paper money.

Hari-çauri: No. They used to…

Prabhupäda: That barter system. You have got rice; I have got something else. So I give you something; you give me something.

Hari-çauri: But isn’t inflation possible even with coins? Even if you have gold coins, isn’t inflation still possible?

Prabhupäda: No, gold is acceptable by everyone.

 

Rämeçvara: The main point is the barter system.

Hari-çauri: Yes, well its value is recognized by its purchasing power.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: So you can alter… Say, you have one gold coin. You can alter what it…

Prabhupäda: No. If you introduce real metal coin, then there will be no inflation.

Hari-çauri: There’s only a certain amount of metal.

 

Prabhupäda: That’s all right. The exchange… The more demand, more price. So suppose here is a spectacle. I am demanding ten rupees. So both of you are customer, and you are asking for this spectacle. Then I am increasing my price. So if you can pay me by printing paper, you’ll accept any price. That means artificially price is increased. Is it not?

Rämeçvara: Yes.

Hari-çauri: So the idea is that with coins the man who has the goods, he can’t…

 

Prabhupäda: Therefore… Suppose he has got ten coins; you have got ten coins. I am wanting fifteen coins. So there will be no competition. I have to accept either from you or you, ten coins.

Hari-çauri: Right. Because there’s only that much money.

Prabhupäda: But if I increase price and if you print… If you have got power to print, “All right. Take fifteen coins, er, fifteen rupees.” But you [can] print and pay me. But if the gold, the coin, is there, you cannot increase on that.

 

Hari-çauri: He can’t increase the price of the product, and the man who got…, ’cause there’s only a certain amount of money there.

 

Prabhupäda: But I can increase the price provided you pay me. But by printing, it is easier. But if you have to collect coins, that will be difficult, so there will be no artificial increase of…

Hari-çauri: Yes. Coins is a check…

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: …on charging too much.

Prabhupäda: That is wanted. And these rascals, they are artificially printing paper as money. And I am a rascal; I’m demanding more because I have got customer.

Rämeçvara: The difference between Vedic culture and…, the Kåñëa conscious culture and the modern culture is very, very dramatic, very big difference. So the transforming of society…

Prabhupäda: And besides that, if we concentrate in farm project there will be no need of exchange, because I’ll be satisfied with my products. That’s all. There is no need of exchange. Whatever I need, I get in my farm.

Rämeçvara: Weaving, cloth.

Prabhupäda: Everything I get. So I haven’t got to go outside for exchange. If you are satisfied in your farm—I am satisfied—then where is question of exchange? There is no need of artificial… So this banking, “fanking,” everything will collapse automatically. There is no money, who is going to keep money in the bank?

Hari-çauri: Who needs it?

Prabhupäda: (laughs) So this artificial way of banking, that will be also collapsed.

Hari-çauri: This is revolutionary.

Rämeçvara: It’s very hard for the mind to…

Prabhupäda: No, simply do this.

Rämeçvara: Such a dramatic transformation of society.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Whatever it may be… We should be satisfied locally by our food, by our cloth, by our milk. That’s all. Let the whole world go to hell. We don’t care. If you want to save yourself also, you do this. Here is an example. If you want artificial life, city life, and hellish life, you do. But we shall live like this. This is the ideal life.

Hari-çauri: But still, we’re going out to attract people to come to our life-style.

Prabhupäda: Hm?

Hari-çauri: We’re still going out to attract people to come and live like us.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Rämeçvara: Well, even more than that, we know that we have the secret to real life, so it’s our duty to actually… Just like you say…

Prabhupäda: That is preaching. That is preaching.

Rämeçvara: …the surgeon, he must cut.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Rämeçvara: The doctor must…

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Rämeçvara: …save the patient. It’s his duty.

Prabhupäda: No artificial dealing. Purge out.

Hari-çauri: When one actually has the power, he can do that.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: So by our preaching now, we have to try and establish a Kåñëa consciousness government first through the democratic system.

Rämeçvara: You said, “Think in terms of the whole world, not just one nation. That is our preaching.” So you are training us to think very big, global.

Prabhupäda: We keep the ideal style of life. You learn and do it. I am not encroaching upon your independence, but if you want to be happy, you follow. This is our process. Äpani äcari’ jéve çikhäilä bhakti. [From Madhya 1.22: “…Through His personal behavior, {He} instructed all living entities in the mode of devotional service.”] You be happy, very ideally, and people will learn. But this can be possible only on the basis of Kåñëa consciousness. If you make minus Kåñëa consciousness this thing, it will never be possible. Then it will not be possible. All these scheme will be successful if there is Kåñëa consciousness.

 

 

Hari-çauri: Only if the chanting and prasädam is there.

Prabhupäda: Prasädam, Deity worship, devotional life… Then it will be all right.

Hari-çauri: Yes. Gandhi could never implement his program.

Prabhupäda: Nobody can do. They simply… Even… What is that? Marx? He could not. There is no real attraction. Artificial, by force. Here the real attraction is Kåñëa. So other thing he doesn’t mind: “Let there be little inconvenience. I don’t mind.”

Hari-çauri: A devotee is actually getting a higher taste. He’s getting some real enjoyment, so he doesn’t care for the other things.

Prabhupäda: So unless there is enjoyment he cannot stick. But that enjoyment is Kåñëa.

Hari-çauri: Just that chanting is enough. It’s just so much nectar.

Prabhupäda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kértana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.

 

 

MÄYÄPURA, FEBRUARY 14, 1977 — CONVERSATION

VARËÄÇRAMA SYSTEM

MUST BE INTRODUCED

 

HIGHLIGHTS: Leadership training…leadership means to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects…varëäçrama-dharma for everyone— beginning with ISKCON…whatever your work, do it for Kåñëa and become perfect…leaders: Vedic versus modern… peace and hope via varëäçrama

 

Satsvarüpa: …thought they were suppressed.

Prabhupäda: Revolution means they are dissatisfied.

Satsvarüpa: French Revolution, Russian Revolution.

Prabhupäda: These things were not going nicely. Therefore gradually it broke. But if things are going nicely, people will be happy. They will not revolt. You have to keep the citizens satisfied in all respects. You must know the necessity how people are satisfied. You have to arrange the government in that way. Then there will be no revolution. Mass of people, if they are satisfied, they will not revolt. But they do not know the process. The “demoncracy,” the common man is allowed to vote. He has no knowledge and he’s voting. This is most condemned process. Camara -bhangi, a sweeper, he is voted to become Minister of Defense. His business is to cleanse the street, and now he’s voted to become because he has got number of votes. So many bhangis, they vote, “Yes, he is our leader. He should be Defense Minister.” You have to do that. This is democracy. His business is to sweep, and he’s voted a defense minister.

Hari-çauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody’s educated now. In America…

Prabhupäda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That’s all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Educa tion… University student was informed that “Next birth you may become a dog,” so he said, “What is the wrong there?” This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Satsvarüpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can’t be changed. But the people…

 

 

Prabhupäda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kñatriya should be trained up as kñatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

çauryaà tejo dhåtir däkñyaà

yuddhe cäpy apaläyanam

dänam éçvara-bhävaç ca

kñätraà karma svabhäva-jam

[Bg. 18.43]: “Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the kñatriyas.”] He must be very powerful, very strong, strongly built. You have seen the picture, Rämacandra? Sturdy body. You see. Lakñmaëa. Because kñatriya. They should be trained up as kñatriya.

Therefore the varëäçrama college is required to train people who is able to become a brähmaëa, who is able to become a kñatriya, who is able to become… In this way division must be. And according to the quality and work there must be division for cooperation. There is a big scheme. They have lost. They do not know. All bhangis, camara, çüdras, they are simply given vote. That’s all. Where is the training?

Hari-çauri: But what is the use of having big strong body if now they’re using airplanes and tanks and guns.

Prabhupäda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukñetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they’ll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gétä, then whole world will be… This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.

Hari-çauri: Because even the yavanas and mlecchas were following the kñatriya system in Kåñëa’s time. Just like Jaräsandha. He had all the chivalrous respect of a kñatriya even though he was a demon. But nowadays everybody’s… No one is…

Prabhupäda: Everybody’s çüdra. Nobody’s brähmaëa, nobody’s…

Hari-çauri: No.

Prabhupäda: Çüdra is to be controlled only. They are never given to be freedom…That is best, to keep them under control…but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.

Hari-çauri: If that’s done then how will those who have some potential to be educated, how will we recognize them?

Prabhupäda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But [now]there is no education at all…So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brähmaëa, certain section as kñatriya, certain section as vaiçya. In that education we don’t discriminate because he’s coming of a çüdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.

Satsvarüpa: Lord Caitanya, when Rämänanda Räya brought this up He said it was not possible in this age to introduce this.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Not… He did not say possible. Ihä bähya. [From Madhya 8.59: “The Lord replied, ‘This is external. You had better tell Me of some other means.’”] Caitanya Mahäprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

 

 

Satsvarüpa: But don’t we do that also?

Prabhupäda: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Kåñëa consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahäprabhu personally took sannyäsa. He rejected completely material. Niñkiïcana [one who “who has nothing to do with this material world”]. But we are not going to be niñkiïcana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the… That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gétä. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahäprabhu rejected everything, ihä bähya. Rejected meaning, “I do not take much interest in this.” Bähya. “It is external.” He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual.

But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahäprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.

 

Satsvarüpa: Varëäçrama is not required.

Prabhupäda: Not required. Caitanya Mahäprabhu denied, “I am not brähmaëa, I am not kñatriya, I am not this, I am not this.” He rejected. But in the Bhagavad-gétä, the cätur-varëyaà mayä såñöam. [ [Bg. 4.13]: “According to the three modes of material nature and the work associated with them, the four divisions of human society are created by Me…”] So we are Kåñëa…, preaching Kåñëa consciousness. It must be done.

Hari-çauri: But in Caitanya Mahäprabhu’s practical preaching He only induced them to chant.

Prabhupäda: That is not possible for ordinary man.

 

Hari-çauri: What, to simply induce people to chant?

Prabhupäda: Hm?

Hari-çauri: He only introduced just the chanting.

Prabhupäda: But who will chant? Who’ll chant?

 

Satsvarüpa: But if they won’t chant, then neither will they train up in the varëäçrama. That’s the easiest.

Prabhupäda: The chanting will be there, but you cannot expect that people will chant like Caitanya Mahäprabhu. They cannot even chant sixteen rounds. (And) these rascals are going to be Caitanya Mahäprabhu.

 

Satsvarüpa: No. But if they at least will chant and take some prasäda…

Prabhupäda: Chanting will go on. That is not stopped. But at the same time the varëäçrama-dharma must be established to make the way easy.

Hari-çauri: Well, at least my own understanding was that the chanting was introduced in the age of Kali because varëäçrama is not possible.

 

Prabhupäda: Because it will cleanse the mind. Chanting will not stop.

Hari-çauri: So therefore the chanting was introduced to replace all of the systems of varëäçrama and like that.

Prabhupäda: Yes, it can replace, but who is going to replace it? The… People are not so advanced. If you imitate Haridäsa Öhäkura to chant, it is not possible.

Satsvarüpa: We tell them go on with your job but chant also.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Thäkaha äpanära käje [From song by Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura: “…Go on with your prescribed duty, and chant Hare Kåñëa.”] Bhaktivinoda Öhäkura. Äpanära käja ki. Caitanya Mahäprabhu recom mended, sthäne sthitaù [“remaining in the varëäçrama-dharma”] And if they do not remain in the sthäna, then the sahajiyä’s chanting will come. Just like the sahajiyäs also have got the beads and…, but they have got three dozen women. This kind of chanting will go on. Just like our (name withheld). He was not fit for sannyäsa but he was given sannyäsa. And five women he was attached, and he disclosed.

Therefore varëäçrama-dharma is required. Simply show-bottle will not do. So the varëäçrama-dharma should be introduced all over the world, and…

 

Satsvarüpa: Introduced starting with ISKCON community?

Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. Brähmaëa, kñatriyas. There must be regular education.

Hari-çauri: But in our community, if the…, being as we’re training up as Vaiñëavas…

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: …then how will we be able to make divisions in our society?

Prabhupäda: Vaiñëava is not so easy. The varëäçrama-dharma should be established to become a Vaiñëava. It is not so easy to become Vaiñëava.

Hari-çauri: No, it’s not a cheap thing.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Therefore this should be made. Vaiñëava, to become Vaiñëava, is not so easy. If Vaiñëava, to become Vaiñëava is so easy, why so many fall down, fall down? It is not easy. The sannyäsa is for the highest qualified brähmaëa. And simply by dressing like a Vaiñëava, that is… fall down.

Hari-çauri: So the varëäçrama system is like for the kaniñöhas, Kaniñöha- adhikäré. [From SB 11.2.47, see below.]

Prabhupäda: Kaniñöha?

Hari-çauri: When one is only on the platform of neophyte.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Yes. Kaniñöha-adhikäré, yes.

Hari-çauri: Varëäçrama system is beneficial.

Prabhupäda: Kaniñöha-adhikäré means he must be a brähmaëa. That is kaniñöha-adhikäré. The spiritual life, kaniñöha-adhikäré, means he must be a qualified brähmaëa. That is kaniñöha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brähmaëa, that is kaniñöha-adhikäré:

arcäyäm eva haraye

püjäà yaù çraddhayehate

na tad-bhakteñu cänyeñu

sa bhaktaù präkåtaù småtaù

[SB 11.2.47: “A devotee who faithfully engages in the worship of the Deity in the temple but does not behave properly toward other devotees or people in general is called a präkåta-bhakta, a materialistic devotee, and is considered to be in the lowest position.”] The brähmaëa means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brähmaëa there is no question of Vaiñëava.

 

Hari-çauri: No question of?

Prabhupäda: Vaiñëavism.

çåëvatäà sva-kathäù kåñëaù

puëya-çravaëa-kértanaù

hådy antaù-stho hy abhadräëi

vidhunoti suhåt satäm

[SB 1.2.17]

[SB 1.2.17: “Çré Kåñëa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramätmä [Supersoul] in everyone’s heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.”]

By becoming a brähmaëa, hearing, hearing, hearing… Or by hearing, hearing, hearing, he becomes a brähmaëa. The other qualities, çüdra quality, kñatriya, vaiçya, means finished. So then next stage is, çåëvatäà sva-kathäù kåñëaù puëya-çravaëa-kértanaù, hådy antaù… [SB 1.2.17]. Nañöa-präyeñv abhadreñu. [From SB 1.2.18] By this process, hearing… Without becoming a brähmaëa nobody is interested to hear. Then, by hearing, nañöa-präyeñv abhadreñu, then abhadra, means the base qualities, means ignorance and passion… These are the base qualities. So nañöa-präyeñv abhadreñu. When these base qualities are finished almost, not complete, nityaà bhägavata-sevayä, by hearing from Bhägavata or by serving the spiritual master and Kåñëa consciousness movement—

 

nañöa-präyeñv abhadreñu nityaà bhägavata-sevayä

bhagavaty uttama-çloke bhaktir bhavati naiñöhiké

 

[ SB 1.2.18: “By regular attendance in classes on the Bhägavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.”]

Then he becomes fixed up in devotional… This devotional service is the first-grade quality of sattva-guëa.

nañöa-präyeñv abhadreñu nityaà bhägavata-sevayä

bhagavaty uttama-çloke bhaktir bhavati naiñöhiké

[SB 1.2.18]

Tadä rajas-tamo-bhäväù. [SB 1.2.19: see below] When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamaù, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: käma-lobhädayaç ca ye. Käma, lusty desires, and greediness. Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityaà bhägavata-sevayä bhagavaty uttama… When one is situated in devotional service, tadä rajas-tamo-bhäväù. These are rajas-tamo… These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhäväù.

tadä rajas-tamo-bhäväù

käma-lobhädayaç ca ye

ceta etair anäviddhaà

sthitaà sattve prasédati

[SB 1.2.19]

[SB 1.2.19: “As soon as irrevocable loving service is established in the heart, the effects of nature’s modes of passion and ignorance, such as lust, desire and hankering, disappear from the heart. Then the devotee is established in goodness, and he becomes completely happy.”] The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaà sattve prasédati. Then he is to be understood… He’s in the sattva-guëa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he’ll be pleased. Prasédati. In this way, gradual step…

So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varëäçrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, “Give us some student.” You know that?

Satsvarüpa: Religion professors.

Prabhupäda: Whatever it may be, higher studies…

Satsvarüpa: Yes. “Send us some of your men.”

Prabhupäda: Nobody is interested with higher study. They want some technological understanding so that they can earn money. That’s all. This is only interest.

Satsvarüpa: In our ISKCON, one becomes a brähmaëa after a year. It’s not very hard. Everyone becomes a brähmaëa.

Prabhupäda: That is due to chanting. That lift very easily.

Hari-çauri: Where will we introduce the varëäçrama system, then?

Prabhupäda: In our society, amongst our members.

Hari-çauri: But then if everybody’s being raised to the brahminical platform…

Prabhupäda: Not everybody. Why you are misunderstanding? Varëäçrama, not everybody brähmaëa.

Hari-çauri: No, but in our society practically everyone is being raised to that platform. So then one might ask what is…

Prabhupäda: That is… Everybody is being raised, but they’re falling down.

Hari-çauri: So then we should make it more difficult to get…

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: …brahminical initiation. After four or five years.

Prabhupäda: Not necessary. You remain as a kñatriya. You’ll be ha…

Hari-çauri: No need for even any brähmaëa initiation, then…

Prabhupäda: No, no.

Hari-çauri: …unless one is…

Prabhupäda: No, brähmaëa must be there. Why do you say, generalize?

Hari-çauri: Unless one is particularly…

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Hari-çauri: …inclined.

Prabhupäda: Not that a çüdra man is by force become a brähmaëa. You cannot improve. That is not possible. But even if he remains a çüdra and does accordingly, he will get the same position as devotee. Sva-karmaëä tam abhyarcya sam… [From Bg 18.46: “{By worship of the Lord, who is the source of all beings and who is all-pervading} a man can attain perfection through performing his own work.”] He’ll get the perfection. At the present moment the idea is: if one remains a çüdra, then he cannot get perfection. No. Even a çüdra can get perfection provided he does the work of a çüdra perfectly.

 

Hari-çauri: For Kåñëa.

Prabhupäda: Therefore why a çüdra artificially should be a brähmaëa? Let them, let him remain a çüdra, and if he follows strictly the rules and regulation of çüdra, he’ll also be as good as a brähmaëa. The same example: Just like head is as important as my leg. It is not that because it is leg, it is less important than my head. And if you ask the head, “Do the work of a leg,” it is impossible. And if you ask the leg to work as a brain, that is impossible. Let him remain brain, let him remain leg, and do your duty and you become perfect.

 

 

Satsvarüpa: Today you’ve been saying that the Vaiñëava is the highest, above the brähmaëa. But then we’ve also understood that everyone in ISKCON is a Vaiñëava.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Vaiñëava everyone, even if he’s not brähmaëa: jévera ‘svarüpa’ haya—kåñëera ‘nitya-däsa’ [Cc. Madhya 20.108]: “It is the living entity’s constitutional position to be an eternal servant of Kåñëa because he is the marginal energy of Kåñëa and a manifestation simultaneously one and different from the Lord, like a molecular particle of sunshine or fire. Kåñëa has three varieties of energy.”] But you have to gradually bring him to that pure consciousness that “I am servant of Kåñëa.” Here the bodily conception is going on, “I am American,” “I am Indian,” “I am this,” “I am that.”

Satsvarüpa: If in our society we say, “Çréla Prabhupäda wants some to be çüdra…”

Prabhupäda: No, no, no. I don’t want. I want everyone to become Vaiñëava. But because he’s a çüdra, it is not possible to bring him immediately to the platform of brähmaëa, or Vaiñëava. Therefore falling down. Therefore system must be. But even if he remains a çüdra, he’s a Vaiñëava.

Hari-çauri: So we’d have to completely revise the whole system that we have now.

Prabhupäda: No. Whatever we have, that is all right. But we see by experience that they’re falling down. There must be systematic. Why falling down? Because he was not fit for the position, therefore he has fallen. Better remain in his position and become perfect. Why artificially bring them? There is no need. Kåñëa says. Bring that Bhagavad-gétä. Sve sve karmaëy abhirataù?

Hari-çauri:

sve sve karmaëy abhirataù

saàsiddhià labhate naraù

sva-karma-nirataù siddhià

yathä vindati tac chåëu

“By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done.” [Bg 18.45]

Prabhupäda: Yes. He is çüdra, clerk. He can… As a çüdra, he can get the perfection. Why he should artificially become a brähmaëa and sannyäsé and fall down? This has to be checked.

 

Hari-çauri: So that depends upon our men who are giving recommenda tions.

Prabhupäda: So that recommendation is not good. Bible is giving so many recommendation. He’s also not following them. (laughs)

Hari-çauri: Following them. So how will we implement? Right now we have… Every temple president can…

Prabhupäda: That is supposed. Where there is no tree, a castor seed tree is very big tree. That is going on.

Satsvarüpa: If there’s no tree?

Prabhupäda: You know castor seed tree, a plant? it does not grow.

Satsvarüpa: Small.

Prabhupäda: Small. So there is no banyan tree. It is taken—“Oh, it is very big.”

Hari-çauri: I don’t follow the analogy.

Satsvarüpa: In the complete absence of trees, then a small tree is consid ered big.

Hari-çauri: Oh. (laughs) Well, say, like here in Mäyäpura now we have a situation…

Prabhupäda: No, no. Why? Why one should stress to become big tree? Here it is clearly said even if you are small tree, you can get perfection. So we should take that.

Hari-çauri: So in Mäyäpura here now we have that situation, that so many…

Prabhupäda: Everywhere, wherever, Mäyäpura or anywhere. Question is that here it is clearly said, sve sve karmaëy abhirataù. Brähmaëa has his duty, kñatriya has his duty, vaiçya has his duty, çüdra has his duty. And if he performs his duty nicely, then he also becomes perfect. So why artificially he should be called a brähmaëa? Let them do, according to çästra, the work of çüdra, or vaiçya. He’ll get the perfect.

Perfection is not checked. But why artificially he should be made a brähmaëa or he should be made a sannyäsé and fall down and become a ludicrous? That is the point. Better let him live in his position and become perfect. That’s good. That looks very nice. And that is. That is possible.

 

 

Varëäçramäcäravatä puruñeëa paraù pumän viñëur ärädhyate. [From Paräçara Muni in Viñëu Puräëa (3.8.9): “The Supreme personality of Godhead, Lord Viñëu, is worshiped by the proper execution of prescribed duties in the system of varëa and äçrama. There is no other way to satisfy the Lord.”] Viñëu, Lord Viñëu, can be worshiped if you perfectly follow the rules and regulation of four varëas and four äçramas. Here it is also said, sve sve karmaëi. You work as a perfect brähmaëa or a perfect kñatriya, perfect çüdra; you get perfection. The perfection is available in your natural life. Why should artificially you become unnatural and fall down and become ludicrous? Perfection is not checked.

 

Satsvarüpa: But in most of our temples, the duties are either Deity worship, brähmaëa…

Prabhupäda: Brähmaëas are available. Why you are bothering about this? Brähmaëas are also available, çüdras are also available. Why çüdra should be artificially become a brähmaëa?

Satsvarüpa: What will the çüdras do in the big city temple, in all the temples?

Prabhupäda: Why you are bringing our temples? I am talking of the principle.

Satsvarüpa: Oh.

Hari-çauri: The principle we follow. We’re just thinking how it can be implemented. You were saying that it should be started in our society.

Prabhupäda: Yes, that is a very broad idea. Now we are speaking of some of them, training them. That is another thing. That is small scale.

Hari-çauri: The principle we’re following.

Prabhupäda: Yes. In the… For the big scale, this is the required. In big scale you cannot make all of them as brähmaëas or sannyäsés. No. That is not possible. This is a small scale. How many percentage of people of the world we are controlling? Very insignificant. But if you want to make the whole human society perfect, then this Kåñëa consciousness movement should be introduced according to the Kåñëa’s instruction, if you want to do it in a large scale for the benefit of the whole human society.

Now we are picking up some of them, best. That is another thing. But Caitanya Mahäprabhu said para-upakära. [From Ädi 9.41: “{One who has taken his birth as a human being in the land of India (Bhärata-varña) should make his life successful and} work for the benefit of all other people.”] Why a certain section should be picked up? The whole mass of people will get the benefit of it. Then it is required, systematic. Sve sve karmaëy abhirataù saàsiddhià labhate naraù. [From Bg 18.45: “By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect…”] Para-upakära means mass benefit, not there is certain section. Then we have to introduce this varëäçrama-dharma. It must be done perfectly, and it is possible and people will be happy…

Just like Prahläda Mahäräja. He said that “I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals.” Tato vimüòha-cetasa indriyärtha: “They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification.” Indriyärtha. “And for that purpose, a few years, they’re making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?” And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kåñëa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature’s law is working, how he’s going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Müòho näbhijänäti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kåñëa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varëäçrama, that “Here is the position.”

 

 

Hari-çauri: At this time should we try to introduce it in our centers or not?

Prabhupäda: Always we shall try. Human society will be always there. We have to serve them, para-upakära. We have to keep them in the right position.

Hari-çauri: I just remember two or three years ago there was a thing… A pamphlet came out about introducing the varëäçrama system in the society, but actually nothing came of it.

 

Prabhupäda: Yes. That time was not right. Now you can do something.

Satsvarüpa: That was the beginning of emphasis on farms when Prabhupäda said that, when more and more farms start, the idea of the vaiçya. But nothing else happened.

Prabhupäda: Every business is important. Brähmaëa business is important, kñatriya… Just like the body. Head is important; the arm is important; the belly is important. They must be kept in order. Just like I am in trouble because my belly is not working. Digesting power is not good. So in spite of brain, hand, and leg, I am diseased.

If any part of the society remains diseased, the whole society will suffer. Therefore they must be maintained in correct order. You cannot say if there is some trouble in the leg, “Neglect the leg. Take care of the brain.” No. Brain will be taxed due to the pain in the leg. This is nature. Therefore everyone should be kept in order. Then things will go on. That is varë äçrama. They do not know that. Sometimes they are giving stress… That communist is giving stress to the çüdra class, and the capitalist are giving to the belly class. And what about the head? What about the arms? And therefore topsy-turvied. Everything is disorder. There are two classes of men now—capitalist and communist. The communist is giving stress, “No. Simply the legs shall be taken care.” What is called? Proly?

Hari-çauri: Proletariat.

Prabhupäda: What is that proletariat?

Satsvarüpa: The laborers.

Prabhupäda: That’s all. These rascals are giving stress on the legs. And the capitalists, they are giving stress on production. And where is the kñatriya and brähmaëa?

Hari-çauri: Well, they’re all giving stress to accumulation of weapons. They’re all giving stress to…

Prabhupäda: That is not kñatriya’s business. That is… That is… No, that is described. Kåñëa said… He arranged the battlefield, because the kñatriyas, they became very powerful by individual military strength as it is now…

Hari-çauri: Accumulation.

Prabhupäda: Ha. So Kåñëa arranged: “All right, you come together and finish yourselves.” So this arrangement will be done that all atomic bomb will come in warfield—one, next, third war, finished. All these, all these demons will be finished. That is not kñatriya. This is demonic. Kñatriyas’ business is to see that the four orders of life are maintained properly, not increasing military strength only, overburdened. Everyone is spending 75% of the revenue for military. Huh? Pariträëäya sädhünäà vinäçäya ca duñkåtäm. [Bg. 4.8]: To deliver the pious and} to annihilate the miscreants, {as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.}”] So they are demons. Why so much money should be spent for military? They are not kñatriyas. They are not kñatriyas. They are demons. So demons… As soon as there will be number of demons increased, there will be war and finish all.

 

 

Hari-çauri: So at least if we successfully introduce the varëäçrama system in our own society, then when all the demons finish themselves…

Prabhupäda: At least… At least… At least they will see, “This is the ideal.”

 

Hari-çauri: Yes. Then if there is a war after that, it will be all right.

Prabhupäda: At least ideal must be there. That we are doing.

Hari-çauri: This will more or less revolutionize the way we’re running our centers. If we introduce it, it will more or less revolutionize the way we’re running our centers.

Prabhupäda: Why? Why revolution?

Hari-çauri: Because right now our only emphasis is just to simply produce brähmaëas.

Prabhupäda: So why you are taking “we”? Why not others? This is kaniñöha-adhikäré. You are thinking of “we.” That is kaniñöha-adhikäré. It is not that “we.” Na tad-bhakteñu cänyeñu. [SB 11.2.47: see above.] You have to think for others also.

Satsvarüpa: But the people are not at our disposal to organize.

Hari-çauri: We are thinking of “we” because actually we only have our own society at the moment to organize.

Satsvarüpa: We cannot approach the masses to organize.

Hari-çauri: It can’t be implemented on such a big scale.

Prabhupäda: I do not follow what you say.

Satsvarüpa: Just like…

Prabhupäda: Ideal. We are giving the ideal.

Satsvarüpa: But no one’s listening and no one’s taking it up except a few…

Prabhupäda: But you take. You show them.

Hari-çauri: That’s why we say, “we.”

Prabhupäda: That “We said” means not we are going to take them, but we are simply giving the ideas. We are not going to be a çüdra. But to show the… Just like you play in a drama. You are playing the part of a king. You are not a king.

Hari-çauri: No.

Prabhupäda: So similarly, just to give them idea, we have to play like that.

Hari-çauri: Well, again, that’s…

Prabhupäda: Not necessarily that we are going to be çüdra. So that is it. That is the thing. We are servant of Kåñëa. That’s all. And as servant of Kåñëa, we have to execute the order of Kåñëa.

Satsvarüpa: So we can ideally organize ourselves and then for the rest of the people all we can do is hope that they’ll follow it.

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Bhavänanda: Set the example.

Prabhupäda: Example. Just like Bhavänanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He’s a sannyäsé Vaiñëava. Similarly, nähaà vipro na ca nara-patir näpi… [From Padyävalé 74: “I am not a brähmaëa, I am not a kñatriya, I am not a vaiçya or a çüdra. Nor am I a brahmacäré, a householder, a vänaprastha or a sannyäsé…” cited in Madhya 13.80] Caitanya Mahäprabhu said, “I am not a sannyäsé.” But He took sannyäsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyäsé, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varëäçrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varëäçrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce…Here is a very nice institution for the benefit of the whole society human.

 

 

MÄYÄPURA, FEBRUARY 15, 1977 — EVENING DARÇANA

 

HIGHLIGHTS: ISKCON Farm report…on varëäçrama farm project, four varëäs solve four problems of social life …Indian farm life…British transportation improvements: a trick to exploit India

Tamäla Kåñëa: Actually I brought you a very nice report which I think you may like to keep and show to visitors. It’s notarized, all about the production at that farm. So if anyone wants to see what…

 

Prabhupäda: Pennsylvania.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Yes. And it’s a notarized report, giving everything, the value of the farm as well as the production for one year. So I can give it to Satsvarüpa.

Prabhupäda: Yes. What is that? Read. Light is not sufficient.

 

Hari-çauri: Get that torch in the back.

Prabhupäda: Torch?

Tamäla Kåñëa: I originally composed this for Mahäàça Swami, but I thought I would bring a copy for your… You know, so when guests come. Should I read it?

 

Prabhupäda: Yes.

Tamäla Kåñëa: “ISKCON farm report: Port Royal, Pennsylvania, report for year 1976. ISKCON Incorporated of New York owns a prime farm in Juanita County of Pennsylvania. The land is nearly four hundred acres in size, valued at around five hundred dollars per acre, or two hundred thousand dollars. In addition the buildings on the property consist of the following: barn worth $40,000; outbuildings worth $10,000; calf barn $25,000; equipment $50,000; residential building $45,000; guesthouse and public kitchen and prasäda pavilion $75,000; and silos $20,000. Total, including land, $465,000. The purpose of this land is to produce foodstuffs to meet all the needs of the farm community as well as the needs of our temples in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Baltimore.

 

Another purpose is to demonstrate the principle of cow protection, as we are strict vegetarians and do not believe in slaughtering cows. Our herd of cows is Brown Swiss, and they are rated amongst the top one percent of dairy cow herds in the United States. All of the cows are pedigreed. Our farm holds fifty milk cows and fifty young cows, heifers. The milk cows milk an average of 40 kilos of milk per day in their first month of lactation and average 25 kilos per day over the whole year. We have 140 acres of crop land and 30 acres of pasture, the balance being woods, primarily hardwood, which is excellent for fuel. On our land we grow not only all the food for the residents but also for the cows. The following is the yield for 1976: corn—200 tons, soybeans—10 tons, barley—10 tons, oats—10 tons…”

 

Prabhupäda: What do you do with the soybeans?

Tamäla Kåñëa: The soybeans are ground and given to the cows.

Brahmänanda: In the winter.

Tamäla Kåñëa: In the wintertime. This way…

Prabhupäda: They’re very nutritious.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Very nutritious. The cows give more milk according to how much nutritious foods you give them.

Prabhupäda: Oh, yes.

Tamäla Kåñëa: So much of this, what we produce, is given for the cows, because the cows cannot graze year round. Because for about four or five months there’s too cold weather. Four months. So they have to have stock of food. “Oats—10 tons, wheat—10 tons.” The wheat is… You tasted the cäpäöi.

Brahmänanda: Excellent.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Very tasty.

Brahmänanda: Nearby there’s a mill, and they grind the wheat fresh.

Prabhupäda: Hm?

Brahmänanda: Near to our farm is a mill where they grind the wheat fresh.

Prabhupäda: Our mill?

Brahmänanda: No.

Tamäla Kåñëa: We are going to get one now. It is not difficult to have a mill. “Hay—45 tons.”

Prabhupäda: In India the practice was hand grind daily. The women will do that. That’s exercise for them, and they keep their body fit and beautiful.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Oxen can also grind, I think. Can oxen also?

Prabhupäda: No, there is no need oxen. Individually, small grind ing—chapki(?). And in the morning they chant Hare Kåñëa and grind. (sings) Hare Kåñëa, Hare Kåñëa, Kåñëa Kåñëa, Hare Hare/ Hare Räma, Hare Räma, Räma Räma, Hare Hare… This is very nice process. Whatever they require for the day, they grind fresh. Very nice system. And actually, by this exercise, they keep their body beautiful.

 

Tamäla Kåñëa: Keeps them well engaged.

Prabhupäda: And engagement. Yaçodämäyi was doing that, even she is the queen of Nanda Mahäräja, what to speak of other women. Churning milk, grinding the wheat, this is their household. We have got that picture. Full engagement. Otherwise gossiping…

Tamäla Kåñëa: Trouble.

Prabhupäda: Trouble. And whisping for laugh. That’s all. (laughs) Whisping or whispering?

Tamäla Kåñëa: Whispering.

Prabhupäda: (chuckling) “Idle brain, devil’s workshop.” Then?

Tamäla Kåñëa: “In the year 1976 we cultivated 5 acres of vegetables, including 24 tons of potatoes. We also have 25 beehives, which produce 100 pounds of honey per hive. There is also a fruit orchard with 150 trees, including apples, pears, peaches, and plum trees. Lastly, we are fortunate…”

Prabhupäda: Those fruits are nice fruits.

Tamäla Kåñëa: “Lastly we are fortunate to have two natural pure water mountain springs running continuously all year. The water is being bottled and then distributed.” And we take that water to New York.

 

Prabhupäda: Very digestive.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Oh, yes. And water sells now for a dollar a gallon now in New York. A good market.

 

Prabhupäda: Just see.

Tamäla Kåñëa: “So we at ISKCON farm look forward to an even more bountiful harvest in the year 1977. This is subscribed and sworn before me by a notary public.” So it is official report.

Prabhupäda: Very good report. It is worth seeing, worth considering our… If we develop our farms in India on this basis, it will be very nice. We have got greater land. You have got 450 acres; we have got 600. No? Now it requires development.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Mahäàça was calling for this because he said that by showing this… He wants to get a big grant of money.

Prabhupäda: They simply want money. That’s all. Money will only be supplied. Let them show some work.

 

Tamäla Kåñëa: Paramänanda may be able to come to help there.

Prabhupäda: Yes, to give them direction. It will be very nice. If Param änanda comes, we can invest money without any hesitation. He has got experience.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Well, I’ll certainly… When Ädi-keçava comes here, I’ll be talking to him about this point. He may be able to come in the winter time.

Prabhupäda: Similarly, we can develop farm here also. Farm development is Kåñëa and Balaräma. Kåñëa is tending cows, and Balaräma is plowing. Therefore the plow and flute, flute for tending cows and plow for agriculture—Kåñëa-Balaräma. In Africa also you have got good opportu nity for these farm projects.

 

 

Brahmänanda: Yes. Actually one of our members in Mombassa, he wanted to buy us a farm. Unfortunately Cyavana rejected it. Anyway, he went and bought the farm for eighty thousand, and now he’s developed it, and it’s a wonderful farm. We went there for a program. It’s very productive. He has one manager, an Indian manager, and the Africans do all the work. He has cows and mangoes, growing vegetables. He’s very thankful to us because we helped…

 

Prabhupäda: Gave the idea.

Brahmänanda: Yes. But he’s our good friend and supporter. He will help us in Mombassa very much.

Prabhupäda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kåñëa gives. Kåñi-go-rakñya- väëijyaà vaiçya-karma svabhäva-jam. [Bg. 18.44]: “Farming, cow protection and trade are the natural work for the vaiçyas…”] This is economic problem solved. And brähmaëa, brain problem solved, and kñatriya, protection problem solved, and çüdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kåñëa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature’s way. Pürëam idam [Éçopaniñad, Invocation]. Everything, complete arrangement by Kåñëa. We have to little work. Çaréra-yäträpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaëaù. [From Bg 3.8: “Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one’s physical body without work.”] If you sit idly, then you’ll starve. Otherwise everything is there. You work little and get your all necessities. Eko yo bahünäà vidadhäti kämän. [Kaöha Upaniñad 2.2.13: “The Supreme Lord…maintains innumerable other individual living beings.”] That one person, God, He’s supplying everyone whatever necessities. You have to simply work little. That is material world. In the material world you have to work…

Tamäla Kåñëa: When was the railway first built?

Prabhupäda: Oh, I think about 1928, long ago, because about twenty years ago there was centenary, hundred years. So the local produce was not exported. Everything was cheap in the village because you have to consume. Whatever is produced in the village you have to consume. And these Britishers, they introduced railway and drew everything in the village to the town. And they would not sell in the village because they would get good price in the city.

Otherwise in the village, everything was very cheap, very, very cheap— milk, vegetables, rice, däl, everything. And the Britishers, they had no food. They have got only the potato. In England what they produce? No food. So everything was exported. Their policy was to supply manufactured goods and take raw materials from India. So they supplied cotton goods. They saw that all Indians are using cotton cloth. Iron they introduced. They introduced railway line, all iron, the carriage, the wheel, the road. Everything was…

In this way they became prosperous. And the Indian people, they saw… They were educated because they are fond of going to pilgrimage by walking. They would go… Suppose from here, Navadvépa, one has to go to Våndävana. He would make his will, because he does not know whether he’ll come back or not. Long distance, thousand miles, you have to go by, on leg. They used to go. So they were advertised that “No. Now you’ll have not to walk. The Company, they’re making very easy going railway.” So they received it, “Oh! (Hindi)” (laughs) But their idea was to draw all the raw materials from villages and send it to England.

Tamäla Kåñëa: But they advertised, “Now you can go…”

Prabhupäda: “Now you can go to tértha by nice railway.”

Brahmänanda: British Railway.

Satsvarüpa: Company.

Prabhupäda: And they thought, “Oh, how beneficial the English, British Company. They’re giving us so much facility.”

 

VÅNDÄVANA, OCTOBER 6, 1977

— ROOM CONVERSATION

HIGHLIGHTS: Prabhupada’s instructions more important than physical presence…self-sufficient cloth production…our devotional service for Çréla Prabhupäda is actually his gift to us

Prabhupäda: Of course, if I die, there is nothing to be ruined. You are all participants. So organize this farm project, simple living. Human life is meant for God realization. Try to help them. This is my…

 

Paramänanda: We’re always feeling your presence very strongly, Çréla Prabhupäda, simply by your teachings and your instructions. We’re always meditating on your instructions.

Prabhupäda: Thank you. That is the real presence. Physical presence is not important.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Çréla Prabhupäda? Mother Satyabhämä [Paramänanda’s wife], she wrote a short note to you. Should I read it to you?

Prabhupäda: Um hm.

Tamäla Kåñëa: She says, “Dear Çréla Prabhupäda, please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Your Divine Grace. This shawl is made of the wool from our own sheep, spun and woven here at Gétä-nagaré. It is the first piece we have made. While I was working on it I would always think of you, of how I was supposedly making you a gift. But actually you are giving me the gift of engagement in devotional service. Çréla Prabhupäda, I always pray to Lord Nåsiàhadeva to protect you and allow you to stay with us to finish your books. But I think today the rain falling from the sky is actually the tears of the demigods, crying at the prospect of your departure. I am also crying. Even Kåñëa cried at the passing of Grandfather Bhéñma, so I have a right to cry. I cannot be so philosophical to say that you are always present in your books and teachings, though I know these things are true. I will miss you so much, Çréla Prabhupäda, if you go. I beg that I may always remain your menial servant and devotee. Your humble disciple, Satyabhämä däsé.”

Prabhupäda: Thank to her. Made with our wool.

Tamäla Kåñëa: So you’ll take rest now, Çréla Prabhupäda?

Prabhupäda: Um hm. This can be on the foot. Yes. Up.

Tamäla Kåñëa: Is it warm?

 

Prabhupäda: Hm, very nice. Very comfortable. Hare Kåñëa, Hare Kåñëa, Kåñëa Kåñëa… Made with our wool.

 

 

VÅNDÄVANA, OCTOBER 8, 1977 — ROOM CONVERSATION

KÅÑËA-BALARÄMA TEMPLE

HIGHLIGHTS: Live simply, grow your own food, produce your own cloth…varëäçrama spreads and sustains Kåñëa consciousness…“Do it”… no social scheme can be successful unless varëäçrama is instituted

 

Prabhupäda: No luxuries. Live very simple life and you save time for chanting Hare Kåñëa.

Haàsadüta: Yes, Prabhupäda.

 

Prabhupäda: That is my desire. Don’t waste time for bodily comforts. You have got this body. You have to eat something. You have to cover yourself. So produce your own food and produce your own cloth. Don’t waste time for luxury, and chant Hare Kåñëa. This is success of life. In this way organize as far as possible, either in Ceylon or in Czechoslovakia, wherever… Save time. Chant Hare Kåñëa. Don’t be allured by the machine